Posts by neat blue dog

Then we get to one of the main purposes of the book, a catalog of all the sins you can get disciplined for. Just to be sure, this disclaimer kicks things off:

Listed below are offenses that may require review by a judicial
committee. Of course, this list is not comprehensive.

You'll find the standard pornea definition:

It is not a casual touching of the sex
organs but involves the manipulation of the genitals.

In case you're a complete idiot and don't know what that means, the following illustration is lovingly provided:

For example, it is one thing to touch a
musical instrument; it is something different to make
"use of" a musical instrument.

Musical instrument? I guess they're referring to the skin flute? And while we're at it, what is this "casual touching" they speak of? Do you brush your hand lazily across while looking at the ceiling and whistling?

But I digress. BTW, if you're a doc or practice animal husbandry, you're in the clear.

For example, a
doctor may need to manipulate the genitals in
examining a patient. A veterinarian, farmer, or rancher
may do something similar to an animal. However, the
intent is not sexual gratification.

I remember reading a WT letter from years ago that said "all" instances of smoking are judicial, but apparently that's not the case now:

one
or two elders may handle matters by means of counsel
if a Christian abused an addictive drug or smoked
cigarettes on one or two occasions and the matter is
not widely known.

Marijuana is also okay and can be in good standing as long as nobody's stumbled:

If a medical
doctor authorizes and/or prescribes marijuana for a
medical problem, a Christian may choose to make use
of this form of treatment. Although no judicial action
would be taken, if an issue arises in the congregation,
the elders will need to determine whether the individual
can be viewed as exemplary.

Associating with disfellowshipped ones is also not judicial in nature if it's done discreetly:

he would not qualify for congregation privileges, which
require one to be exemplary. He would not be dealt
with judicially unless there is persistent spiritual
association or he persists in openly criticizing the
disfellowshipping decision.

There are two handy definitions of "fraud" and "slander", ironic because WT leadership practices both regularly with impunity:

Fraud is defined as the intentional use of deception, trickery, or
perversion of truth for the purpose of inducing another to part
with some valuable thing belonging to him or to give up a legal
right. Slander is defined as a false report meant to do harm to
the good name and reputation of another.

They practice fraud by not telling converts everything they should know before baptism, coercing children to get baptized, controlling information and using their right to family etc. as a threat. They practice slander by demonizing other religions and people, and doing the same thing to 'weak' ones, but especially by disfellowshipping and branding as 'wicked' or 'apostates'.

There are more inconsistent overreaching rules with regard to gambling. For instance, despite JWs saying they 'do not gamble', the book says that it is allowed as long as spirituality isn't affected and nobody gets stumbled. However, merely having a job in the industry IS judicial:

An individual continuing in employment directly involved with
gambling or employment making him a clear accomplice or pro-
moter of gambling would be subject to judicial action, usually af-
ter being allowed six months to make the needed adjustments.

I find the next quote funny, not because it talks about death, but because it refers to the government as "Caesar", with no quotation marks. Seriously? We aren't living in ancient Rome. It just stands out like a sore thumb and seems so unaware. I wonder what any non-JW would think reading that.

Aside from deliberate murder, bloodguilt may be
incurred if a person causes loss of life through carelessness or
because of violating a traffic law or other safety law of Caesar.

Moving on . . .

Apparently if you've faded they may not even bother to deal with you judicially, but it's a toss up and totally up to their discretion. And then there's also the possibility of self-imposed disfellowshipping, which they recommend:

Depending upon the length of inactivity and other factors noted
above, the elders may determine to hold the matter in abey-
ance. In such a case, they would make a record of the person's
questionable conduct for the congregation file. (See 22:21-27.) If
the individual shows interest in returning to the congregation,
the elders can clarify matters at that time.-w08 11/15 pp. 14-15
pars. 12-13.
If the sinful conduct is known only to believing family members
and no congregation action has been taken, believing relatives
will likely determine to curtail family association severely, viewing
the relative as bad association.

It's been brought out before that if Elders commit a judicial offence and a few years pass, it can be swept under the table. It looks like this privilege has been extended to everyone, including those with other privileges:

if wrongdoing occurred more than a few
years ago and the individual is genuinely repentant and recog-
nizes that he should have come forward immediately when he
sinned, counsel by two elders may be sufficient.
If the individual is serving in an appointed capacity, such as a
ministerial servant, elder, or pioneer, his qualifications should be
reviewed

If you're elderly and need to live with your non-JW child and their boy/girl friend, you wouldn't get privileges:

If a publisher were to allow an individual to commit sexual im-
morality while living in the publisher's home, he would be giving
tacit approval to immoral conduct.
Such a publisher would not be exemplary.
For certain reasons,
however, he may feel that he has no recourse at the present time.
For example, elderly Witness parents may need the assistance of
an unbelieving son or daughter. Under such circumstances, no
judicial action would be taken, but the qualifications of the pub-
lisher to serve in an exemplary position would be reviewed by the
body of elders.

A lot has been said of "marking", but not much said about un-marking. To accomplish this, an Elder must make a display of "associating" with a marked one, and that'll give the congregation the go-ahead:

If the disorderly one is moved to change, the elders can individ-
ually decide to resume personally socializing with him. This will
indicate to the congregation that they consider that the individ-
ual is no longer marked.

Apparently, not all pornography is abhorrent, as the book mentions:

abhorrent or nonabhorrent
forms

I guess everything but simple hetero stuff. Still bad, but may only require council. An Elder can also continue to serve as long as he doesn't 'manipulate the instrument' while watching, to use their own lingo:

Was the viewing of por-
nography accompanied by masturbation?

This couldn't help but remind me of Clinton, who smoked marijuana, but didn't inhale. Anyways, if you watch it regularly (non-abhorant) you won't be kicked out, but you also won't get privileges:

On the
other hand, a Christian who persists in viewing nonabhorrent
forms of pornography cannot be considered as exemplary and
thus does not qualify for special privileges in the congregation.

2

Review: revised Elder's manual, part 1

by neat blue dog in

recently the new super-top-secret no girlz alowd elders' treehouse club manual was released.

during phase one it was released to apostates for beta testing via file-sharing sites, and then it was rolled out to elders nationwide, together with precautions to keep it confidential.

here are the covers:.

neat blue dog

Recently the new Super-Top-Secret No Girlz Alowd Elders' Treehouse Club Manual was released. During phase one it was released to apostates for beta testing via file-sharing sites, and then it was rolled out to Elders nationwide, together with precautions to keep it confidential. Here are the covers:

So I'm just gonna read through it and see what catches my attention. Wait, here's a beauty:

Rather than making rigid rules for the congregation, rely on Scriptural principles and direction from Jehovah's organization.

Amusing, considering the very purpose of this book IS to compile rules covering every aspect of a JW's life. A closer look at the wording reveals however, that they aren't against rigid rules, just Elders making up their own. That's the Organization's prerogative. Just to make that point extra clear, the following sentence:

The body of elders should always base their decisions on Bible principles and written direction from "the faithful and discreet slave."

You know that mythical "Infirm Pioneer" status? You know, the one where you don't have to actually Pioneer? Well, turns out, all you have to do is look sufficiently sad and discouraged while having a certain level of seniority. And they aren't supposed to tell you this status exists or is available unless they're absolutely gonna give it to you:

In rare circumstances, a brother or sister may be approved to re-
main as a pioneer without having a minimum hour requirement.
This provision is only for exemplary, longtime pioneers who have
a heartfelt desire to serve always as regular pioneers and who
feel they would be taking a backward step if they had to discon-
tinue but who are unable to meet the hour requirement because
of infirmity.
There is no need to give
consideration to allowing an older pioneer who develops health
problems to serve as an infirm regular pioneer if he is willing to
transfer to the publisher ranks.

If a JW gets pregnant, the Elders should approach her and make sure she's prepared to risk her life for the faith:

When the elders learn that a sister is pregnant, they should in-
quire whether she has located a cooperative doctor and medical
facility that have experience in bloodless medicine. Elders should
ensure that such sisters and any parents with minor children are
familiar with the points contained in the article "Healthy Moth-
ers, Healthy Babies," in the November 2009 issue of Awake! pag-
es 26-29, and in the document How Parents Can Protect Their
Children From Misuse of Blood (S-55).

Part 2 coming soon . . .

26

Any ideas about what the ‘special’ talk is on Memorial Day?

by Bubbles001 in

the family are very excited because there’s a special interruption happening this friday which has supposedly only happened once before when rutherford announced jesus’ ruling in heaven.

requires tuning into jw.org.

meant to be this coming friday before the memorial.

neat blue dog

All it is is a memorial-themed morning worship video on JW Broadcasting.

1

Lighter Note

by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara in

.

have a great week all !.

zing.

neat blue dog

And in that same spirit:

Honey, have you seen my . . . paaaaants?

10

The recent "Special " talk ,how many times was the name JEHOVAH mentioned VS the name JESUS

by smiddy3 in

the jehovah`s witnesses have long charged christendom`s religions falsely i might add of hiding the name of god jehovah /yahweh from their congregants ,by not using it or putting that name on the back burner so to speak ,and just using it minimally .. i`m just wondering if the jehovah`s witnesses /wtb&ts are actually guilty themselves of doing the very same thing with the name of jesus.. in the nwt of the bible 1984 edition i have in the section bible words indexed they have the name jehovah listed 80+ times ,.

however the name jesus is listed less than twenty times .. while i concede the bulk of the bible is contained by the o.t./hebrew scriptures and the n.t./christian greek scriptures are a smaller portion of the bible jehovah`s witness theology do place a lot more emphasis on jehovah than they do with jesus.. arent they guilty of trying to downplay the role of jesus christ in christianity ?

and exulting the name of jehovah which by the way goes against the christian teaching .phillipians 2:9-11.

neat blue dog

SBF:

Everything you said is true and fully compatible with what I said. It still doesn't negate the fact that JWs don't know their proper place and don't give Jesus his proper place.

38

A Must Read Update on WBTS and Darkspilver from reddit

by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara in

jw
friends

many of us know that watch tower (yes, two words in this case) has issued a subpoena to reddit to try to gain darkspilver's identity due to accusations of copyright infringement:.

tl;dr: on april 9, watch tower filed a response to the eff's motion to quash (filed march 26) regarding the subpoena submitted to reddit in an attempt to find /u/darkspilver's identity.. the wt response is publicly available here as a pdf, from the site court listener.. a number of other documents relating to the case are available on the same site, here.. and the eff's motion to quash is available on the eff's website here.. details: as i'm sure many of us know, watch tower (yes, two words in this case) has issued a subpoena to reddit to try to gain /u/darkspilver's identity due to accusations of copyright infringement.

specifically, watch tower is claiming copyright infringement for two things: first, darkspilver posted the back page of the november 2018 watchtower which was an article entitled "what gift can we give to jehovah?” which explained how to donate.

neat blue dog

Is anyone going to mention the fact that copyright doesn't apply in cases of satire, commentary and criticism? Darkspilver was obviously doing the latter.

13

How would you reason with a family member who says...

by HiddenPimo in

“i know the org has made mistakes and failed in some areas but it is still better than christendom”.

ugggghhhhhh.

neat blue dog

All good points so far. Here's another twist: Instead of pointing to sins of the organization which can be acknowledged and then excused, focus on the few main JW doctrines that make them different than other religions. These are the foundations:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5752455104036864/pimo-reverse-witnessing-samples-presentation-1-earthly-hope

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4999677662461952/pimo-reverse-witnessing-sample-presentation-2-last-days-door-door-preaching

10

The recent "Special " talk ,how many times was the name JEHOVAH mentioned VS the name JESUS

by smiddy3 in

the jehovah`s witnesses have long charged christendom`s religions falsely i might add of hiding the name of god jehovah /yahweh from their congregants ,by not using it or putting that name on the back burner so to speak ,and just using it minimally .. i`m just wondering if the jehovah`s witnesses /wtb&ts are actually guilty themselves of doing the very same thing with the name of jesus.. in the nwt of the bible 1984 edition i have in the section bible words indexed they have the name jehovah listed 80+ times ,.

however the name jesus is listed less than twenty times .. while i concede the bulk of the bible is contained by the o.t./hebrew scriptures and the n.t./christian greek scriptures are a smaller portion of the bible jehovah`s witness theology do place a lot more emphasis on jehovah than they do with jesus.. arent they guilty of trying to downplay the role of jesus christ in christianity ?

and exulting the name of jehovah which by the way goes against the christian teaching .phillipians 2:9-11.

neat blue dog

SBF, in the scripture you quoted, notice that it's "God the Father", something you would almost never hear a JW say. The writers knew God's proper name, but didn't casully use it, not just because of a superstition, but because they were adopted as sons of God, Christ's brothers. You don't constantly call your Father by his first name. JWs are confused about this due to the false teaching of an elite few who are annointed.

Also notice that we "acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father". It doesn't say we give God glory by acknowledging Jehovah. We glorify Him BY acknowledging Jesus. True, the Bible says that eventually God will be "all things to everyone", but until then Jesus is an intercessor. This is God's plan for salvation, not to jump the line, call Him on a first name basis and even say only one group and those who join it will get to be "True Christians".

"For you shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men. For you neither enter, nor even do you allow those who are entering to go in."